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Why I Converted To Eastern Orthodoxy : Author Frank Schaeffer

This is Frank Shaeffer speaking about his conversion to Orthodoxy……………………… Here is the moderator speaking on AncientFaithRadio about his ow…
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A comparison of liturgical practices at a large Catholic Church, the second largest Catholic Basilica in the world, and a large Orthodox Church, the second l…

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50 Responses to "Why I Converted To Eastern Orthodoxy : Author Frank Schaeffer"

  1. Hoosiercorporal says:

    St. Peter (so-called), do you think you’re going to change the minds of Orthodox believers by hammering at them with — it looks like 1,000 + — posts? You must not have anything useful to spend your time on.

  2. Aurelian1960 says:

    Each part of the ritual means something. Ritual, by itself, does not neglect the wider world.

  3. Gary Doss says:

    The constraints of ritual that neglect the wider world.

  4. Allen Finnard says:

    All you religious fanatics can go to hell. you give Christianity a bad rep!

  5. Aurelian1960 says:

    why would you think obsessive compulsive

  6. Gary Doss says:

    What potential insights are thought to reside in the ‘history’?

  7. Aurelian1960 says:

    Uh….no.  Simply a search for the historical church.

  8. trueorthodoxfaith says:

    That is correct. The OT temple worship was ritualistic and strict in traditions also.

  9. ST PETER says:

    goes on to say, “neither does this baptism profit the heretic, even though for confessing Christ he be put to death outside the Church.” This is most true. […] “Salvation,” he says, “is not outside the Church.” Who says that it is? And therefore whatevermen have that belongs to the Church outside the Church, it profits them nothing toward salvation outside the Church.”
    The OO church deserted the chair of Peter in 451.The EO church deserted the chair of Peter in 1054 and the protestants in 1540

  10. ST PETER says:

    ” It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. […] If a man does not hold fast to this oneness of Peter, does he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church?” (On the Unity of the Catholic Church”

  11. ST PETER says:

    The OC hasn’t deserted anything? What does Cyprian say?Dr of the church

    St Cyprian  “On him he builds the church and to him he is given the command to feed sheep. Although Christ assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet He founded a single chair and He established by His own authority a source of intrinsic reason for that unity.   Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [Apostles]; but primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair”

  12. ST PETER says:

    The following church fathers wrote and taught the filioque:

    Tertullian
    Origen
    Maximus the Confessor
    Hilary of Poitiers
    Didymus the Blind
    Epiphanius of Salamis
    Basil The Great
    Ambrose of Milan
    Gregory of Nyssa
    The Athanasian Creed
    Augustine
    Cyril of Alexandria
    John Damascene
    Council of Nicaea II”We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, proceeding from the Father through the Son” (Profession of Faith [A.D. 787]).

  13. ST PETER says:

    Tertullian
    Origen
    Maximus the Confessor
    Hilary of Poitiers
    Didymus the Blind
    Epiphanius of Salamis
    Basil The Great
    Ambrose of Milan
    Gregory of Nyssa
    The Athanasian Creed
    Augustine
    Cyril of Alexandria
    John Damascene
    Council of Nicaea I
    I”We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, proceeding from the Father through the Son” (Profession of Faith [A.D. 787]).

  14. Gary Doss says:

    This talk seems to appeal to ritual and strict adherence to form. I sense the obsessive compulsive at work here.

  15. ST PETER says:

    Here is Revelation 22:1 again

    “And he showed me[ a river of water of life] clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the LAMB!

    The Holy Spirit described in John 7:38-39 “rivers of living water”

    Undeniably evidence for the filioque.The following church fathers all wrote on the filioque:

  16. ST PETER says:

    The verse describing the Holy Spirit

    “He that believes in me [Jesus], as the scripture says: Out of his belly shall flow [rivers of living water], Now this he said of the Spirit which they should receive who believed in him: for as yet the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (7:38-39)

    The Holy Spirit is described as “rivers of living water”, identical wording from Rev 22:1

  17. ST PETER says:

    In Revelation 22:1, it uses the same Greek word for “proceeds” as John 15:26,

    “And he showed me [a river of water of life], clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.

    The words in the brackets are describing the Holy Spirit.How do we know this? By the following verse…cont
    Also take note, John wrote Revelation.

  18. ST PETER says:

    Filioque:A significant part of the historic debate has centered around the famous words of Saint John’s Gospel,

    “But when the Paraclete comes, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.”(15:26)

    And the fact John 15:26 only says the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father is taken by the Eastern Orthodox to mean the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone.

  19. ST PETER says:

    If celibacy is so frowned upon, why are all your bishops, metropolitans, patriarchs, all celibate?

  20. ST PETER says:

     The priest can leave for anywhere, at any moment, in response to the Church’s urgent request: which the married man cannot do, since he has his wife and children to worry about, their health, their well-being, their education, and all this he has to do if he is faithfully to obey his vocation as a married man

  21. ST PETER says:

    Celibacy allows such freedom and availability in Christian life and ministry as to make it highly suited to the service of the Church. The priest who is celibate for the sake of the kingdom can carry out particularly difficult missions more easily and freely than a married man, tied down by family responsibilities.

  22. ST PETER says:

    . «Those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that», St Paul writes (1 Cor 7:28). Foreseeing the persecutions to which Christians would fall victim, the Apostle holds that for them it will be an advantage to live in celibacy

  23. ST PETER says:

    before the passover meal.Usually in this discussion, the word artos pops up.This was a generic word for bread, as in bread in general.Celibacy:Christ never married. His life is valid justification for the vocation to celibacy.These human demands, willed by God for the married state, constitute a hindrance to free and available service of the Church. St Paul emphasizes the practical advantage of celibacy inasmuch as marriage entails a necessary loss of independence…cont

  24. ST PETER says:

    You mentioned in a reply that the latins did not allow priests to marry in Southern Italy, used unleavened bread there and eventually used the filioque, as a bad thing.First the bread issue.When looking at the gospels,in the Synoptics (Mt 27:62; Mk 15:42; Lk 23:54), we see that the last supper meal was the passover meal, and then in( John 19:31, 42), The passover meal was after the resurrection.One has to take note, that is was customary for jews to clean out their homes of leaven several days

  25. ST PETER says:

    St Paul-“But he himself shall be saved yet as so through fire'” 1 Corinthians 3:15.

    Non Catholics do not believe in Purgatory. Rest assured, they will believe when they end up there.

    Pray the Rosary daily, pray the stations of the cross, read the bible everyday for 30 min.Avoid mortal sins.Go to confession monthly, receive holy communion every Sunday. These are all ways you can avoid the purging fire.Like I said in a previous post, you must be in a state of sanctifying grace before death.

  26. Lino Aguirre says:

    I thought the death of the messiah Jesus Christ was for the salvation of the soul. Do you have a bible?

  27. Isphanian says:

    Why you catholics cannot accept that those blasphemies are the result and end of a road, instead of a robbery or infiltration?

    The Rites you have mentioned are Orthodox Western Rites, later “developed” (aka corrupted) by the Latin church.

  28. jll123456 says:

    Why do you compare Byzantine Rite with abuses and heretic treatment of western rites? To show how many catholics were deceived and how big is masonic infiltration of Catholic Church? We know that. Do you think this comparison help any soul? Please show something which will build good in souls. You could show, for example, Tridentine Mass or the Mass in the Ambrosian Rite, or the Mozarabic Rite, or the Assyro-Chaldean Rite. It would be good.

  29. Isphanian says:

    (Cont. II)

    PS: Viet-Nam is the oldest -and more accurate- term to call that country in several languages. If you don’t know it, that’s not my problem. But don’t try to play the racist card or the victim card with me. Doesn’t work. In any case, it’s more contemptuous to point out somebody’s SUPPOSED misspelling when capitalizing, as you did. So reserve your etiquette and well-manners lessons for others.

  30. Isphanian says:

    (Cont.)

    And by making it sound like a language thing, trying to invalidate my point of the Church not having to please your desires, but you integrating into the Church’s Life. Even if that was a language issue (which is not), you should be willing to accommodate and get use to that until Liturgies are available in your Language, sharing the -to this day- only perfect Divine Liturgy (the “Byzantine”)with your brothers in Faith.

  31. Isphanian says:

    You obviously are wrong. Yes, again. Indeed. And you obviously don’t live in the US. Otherwise you should know that 100 % of OCA, 100% of Antioquian, more than 50% of GOA, and most ROCOR churches conduct the Divine Liturgies in English (with occasional prayers or hymns in the old languages). Only some monasteries, MP and some GOA temples (normally with few and elder faithful) do it in Greek, Russian, etc.

    And yes, you are making a language issue of something that doesn’t have to do with that.

  32. Isphanian says:

    (Cont. II)

    PS:”His Church, not his church”

    Tell me where in the comment you are replying I have written “his church”. You should read things twice. In any case, you show the typical response from somebody without arguments. Exposing typo as an orthographic mistake, making ad-hominem attack.

  33. Isphanian says:

    (Cont.)

    “but all else is merely our attempt to do it justice. To call it perfect is to commit theological blasphemy.”

    So, according to you, the Church Tradition is not perfect. The Church as a whole, yes, through the Ecumenical Councils, is not perfect, but just “an attempt to do justice”. Be careful to whom you call a blaspheme, lest be you both the arrogant and the blaspheme.

  34. Isphanian says:

    “The Divine Liturgy’s Eucharistic components is perfect” THANKS! That’s my whole point! Divine Liturgy is perfect. Western RiteS are not, whatsoever. And need to be either strongly modified or suppressed.

  35. Isphanian says:

    Your low comprehension skills amaze me. I never said that inclusion of Western Rites are wrong. My whole point, brother, is that in their present form they are a sorry idea and are unacceptable. They are a kind of Historical-Theological fraud in a sense, because are presented as accurate forms of western PRE-schism worship, when in reality they include MULTITUDE of POST-Schism addition.

  36. Isphanian says:

    It’s important where I am from. Of course. I come from a Western country, with rich pre-schismatic tradition and Liturgies…and don’t try to impose my whims or idealistic errors on others, as you do.

    The problem with these new Western Rites is precisely that “they are not in accordance with dogmatic and spiritual requirements of the Orthodox Church”. If those post-schism additions are purged, AGAIN, I agree with you, they should be considered.

  37. Isphanian says:

    Sinners who blaspheme and not only don’t repent but show contempt to our Traditions, don’t deserve respect. They deserve our prayers, of course.

  38. PoorRichardSaunders says:

    Thanks for the BS and the insult. Looking over all your comments it strikes me that you might suffer from a mental illness.

  39. ngahuaiae says:

    You have little knowledge on the issue, so do yourself a favour and keep quiet. The ‘Eastern Church’ isn’t a single person, capable of thinking itself as anything. The reason for the split are dogmatic innovations and failures of the West, as well as the failures of the translators to come up with Latin equivalents for Greek theological terms. This communication problem resulted in the West (read, Rome) being unable to understand the theology understood by the rest of the ancient Patriarchates.

  40. ngahuaiae says:

    Jesus was perfectly accepting of St. Mary Magdalene, so you ought to re-examine just how Orthodox it is of you do deem your fellow man a “clown”. Judge the sin, not the sinners.

  41. ngahuaiae says:

    You can find happiness in killing someone. Does that make it okay? Adoration done in an inappropriate manner is not true adoration. The mass as practised above is scandalous and something most Catholics would abhor, no less than we do.

  42. ngahuaiae says:

    *(1), *becomes

  43. ngahuaiae says:

    No, I don’t live in Vietnam (learn how to spell, and how to mention the names of other with less sneer and contempt). You are wrong, again: Far more than half of all liturgies in the US are performed in the original languages of the communities from which the faithful derive. Only the OCA is a full exception. And, again, this isn’t done to suit individuals, hence your whole argument is valueless.

  44. ngahuaiae says:

    (2) His Church, not his church. His Church is the Body of Christ, resurrected and perfect. His earthly church is a family of sinners, who, at best, attempt to become a shadow of His perfection. The Divine Liturgy’s Eucharistic components is perfect, but all else is merely our attempt to do it justice. To call it perfect is to commit theological blasphemy.

  45. ngahuaiae says:

    (a) Anything brought into line with our dogma, is by definition acceptable to Orthodoxy, and if used by the Orthodox, it become Orthodox. If anyone is bringing the whole Western Rite (of any shape or form) into an Orthodox church (building), they are in no way acting within the Church (Body of Christ). If they are altering it to fit our liturgical requirements, as all those I am aware of are, then that is perfectly acceptable, and your complaints are unwarranted.

  46. ngahuaiae says:

    Again, I don’t care where you are from, and fail to grasp how you manage to change my ‘they’ into your ‘I’. If the liturgy is in accordance with the dogmatic and spiritual requirements of the Orthodox Church, it is admissible. Hence my point – If the Western Rite is not admissible in its current form, it needs to be altered and made so. What you think of that is irrelevant. You may simply continue going to the Byzantine Liturgy, in your chosen language, as I myself intend to, in my language.

  47. David G. Cudlic says:

    Blessed are the poor in Spirit For theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven It is a line from THE BEATITUDES

  48. yank1776 says:

    Wow, that was pretty extreme even for a latin american church.

  49. PoorRichardSaunders says:

    You should Google the name.

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit….” I wonder do you know how the rest of this quote goes?

  50. PoorRichardSaunders says:

    Sorry I probably shouldn’t have said that, but don’t you understand that using caps is entirely unnecessary. It reflects a real desperation to be heard, and I do know the peace of God. It is not a boisterous Spirit. Ultimately if I encounter a heretic, I leave them to their own devices and earnestly pray for them.

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